Tuesday, June 06, 2006
DVD Commentary: A History Of Violence
By Andrew Clarke, George Merchan, Bill Nolen, Carlton Stevens, Charlie Brigden, and Katanga
Session Start: Wed May 31 15:21:23 2006
Carlton: Okay everything works now. I can be as lazy as I want.
George: Yes!
Carlton: The computer to TV hookup was just acting wacky.
George: Oh wow. I'm just watching the flick in a tiny window on my comp.
Carlton: I was just being really lazy and trying to play the film through the network from my computer to this one, instead of just hooking up the DVD player.
George: "through the network"
George: That's awesome.
Charlie: Carlton is really Fisher Stevens from Hackers.
Andrew: I liked that one too.
Carlton: I'm Emilio Estevez from Mission: Impossible.
Charlie: By night, his name is DeAtH_fRoM_aBoVe.
Carlton: RiNGW4ri7h
Charlie: aRaG@Rn
Katanga: Fisher Stevens from Short Circuit is better.
Andrew: I was so naive when I first saw Hackers I thought the video had fucked up when it starts with the small screen 'in the past' prologue.
Charlie: I was so naive when I saw Hackers I thought it was good.
Andrew: It is.
Andrew: Well, maybe it sucks. Leave me my memories.
Katanga: What movie are you jackals going to savage?
Katanga: Superman 3?
Charlie: A History of Violence
Katanga: Make note of Maria Bello's girl parts... someone... don't let them go uncommented.
Carlton: She's no Naomi Watts.
Andrew: Dude...
Andrew: Fantasise about both.
Carlton: Not a Bello fan myself.
Katanga: When that guy gets shot and his jowls fly apart...someone insert "Katanga: LMMMAKLJDFHFHKAUSSDAO!!!"
George: LOL
Charlie: She's no Kari Wuhrer.
Charlie: "Katanga: She's no Zelda Rubenstein."
George: Wuhrer needs to be a pin-up, asap.
Charlie: We should devote a pin-up just to Scarlett Johannson's tits.
George: That would be a two-parter.
Carlton: Who can concentrate on Kari in Sliders when John Rhys Davies is right there...
Andrew: John Rhys Davies is no Brian Blessed.
Katanga: NO ONE IS, SIR.
Carlton: John Rhys Davies should play all of John Rhys Meyers parts, like in Match Point.
Katanga: And Velvet Goldmine.
George: Hahaha.
Charlie: I hate those fucking Australians.
Carlton: Except Naomi Watts' nipples. They're good people.
Charlie: Is someone going to do a newspiece on the Decepticop car?
Andrew: No. I only do crap news items. Not quality like that.
Carlton: I did my Transformers piece. It's your turn... or Gusset's. He hates things.
Charlie: I vote Andrew, because he clearly has dodgy pictures of Arcee on his hard drive.
Katanga: BUMBLEBEE OH NO!
Andrew: See. I told you. He's a MINIBOT.
George: Well, I'm too in awe of the reality of the whole thing to write about it.
Charlie: I'm too in awe of 'To enslave and punish...'
Andrew: For Michael Bay, that's subtle.
Charlie: I wonder what the audience is.
Andrew: Me.
Katanga: John Frankenheimer bore Michael Bay just for this movie. I love it.
Charlie: I still don't get why they didn't make him a Beetle.
Carlton: To suppress his homosexual undertones?
Katanga: 'Cause that's a Nazi car!
Andrew: Beetles are gay.
Charlie: So is Shia LeBeouf.
Andrew: Michael Bay is too. Just very repressed.
Andrew: I remain surprised that Hitler signed off on Herbie.
Katanga: Did we determine the actual spelling of the Transformer sound?
Andrew: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
Katanga: 9
Charlie: It's like a twisted version of the Jason chanting.
Charlie: ki-ka-ka-ka-ka-ker-ka
Katanga: No... it's crunchier than that.
Andrew: I always thought it was more tch tch tcher cher.
Charlie: Ok... add in a few Kong growls.
Charlie: And pretend you're Scottish.
Charlie: (Tapestries?)
Andrew: Sean Connery doing an impression of a Transformer would break english.
George: http://www.transfan-asylum.org/sounds/sounds.htm
Katanga: http://www.geocities.com/prime357/Gestalt1.wav
Charlie: I love how The Transformers: The Movie had a whole Of Mice and Men thing going on with Grimlock and Kup.
Katanga: Hahahaha.
Carlton: Hahaha.
Andrew: I'm doing a political commentary on Stealth by the way.
Andrew: It's a better satire than Starship Troopers.
George: Unintentional satire?
Andrew: Death of the writer dude.
Andrew: And in Cohen's case, we can only hope.
Andrew: I watched an interview with him talking about how he used cubist techniques in the editing of XXX.
Andrew: Now that's unintentional satire.
Katanga: Hahahahaha.
George: No shit.
Carlton: And I saw that Cohen interview. There was another where he bragged about how he understood the culture of youth, and tried to prove it by showing off all his tattoos and how in touch he was with teenagers.
George: I'm going to apply that same Cohen logic to Howie Mandel.
Andrew: Wanting him dead?
George: Well, yeah.
George: But mainly because they annoyingly look like twins.
Carlton: Cohen looks like Howie Mandel's obnoxious brother, what with the shaved head and pierced ear.
George: And it's even funnier considering what Mandel looked like 10 years ago.
Finally, Mr. Nolen enters the room...
Bill: Shall
Bill: We
Bill: Begin?
Andrew: Y
Andrew: E
Andrew: S
*** Katanga has left the chat. Fucker. ***
Bill: Katanga left?
George: Yeah, he was just in to say wassup.
Bill: He can't handle the Cronenberg.
Andrew: Wassup wit dat Bumblebee shit yo? It's whack.
Andrew: He Heart Bumblebee.
And at last, the film begins...
George: "New Line Cinema presents"
Charlie: This is such a killer shot.
Carlton: When I first saw this I was really hoping that was Lance Henriksen coming out the door. And this is a wonderful setup.
George: I love the pacing of this scene.
Andrew: I have grown to like C (Cronenberg)'s look.
Charlie: It looks like Roy Scheider. Bear in mind, I'm watching this on a four-inch window screen.
Carlton: Three people left about a minute into this beginning at the theater because it was too slow.
Carlton: I think they went to go see Roll Bounce.
Bill: Fuck those three people.
Bill: That cicada sound is unsettling.
Andrew: It looks low budget. Simple, almost unthought out.
Charlie: That's what's great about Cronenberg. The movie isn't doing ANYTHING and it's already unsettling.
Andrew: Yeah. Just point the camera and shoot, as if nothing is happening.
Charlie: He's a genius at atmosphere and mood.
Andrew: Like the street scenes in Spider. They reshot it again and again, because it didn't feel right, everytime doing it the same except with less extras walking.
Bill: Hot mornings are not fun.
Andrew: They ended up with no extras at all.
Charlie: I never saw Spider.
Carlton: I've actually only seen this and a bit of The Fly, so I need to catch up. But I remember The Fly just being down right unsettling when I was a kid.
Andrew: C is paying attention to everything.
Charlie: As a good director should.
Bill: His earlier movies felt more sterile in a way. More Canadian.
George: That's true. I got that sense when watching Scanners the other night.
Charlie: It's so pared down, which makes it unsettling because we're just not used to it.
Andrew: Hmm, that shirt doesn't look worn.
Andrew: Sorry. Film sucks.
Charlie: Just the little touches. Checking for change in the pay phone.
Andrew: Ooo! Blood!
George: It's great direction.
Bill: This movie feels very Americana.
George: Which is completely part of the point.
Andrew: And this is all genre. We expect bad things. He's giving us nothing. Playing with expectations. The result is tension.
Charlie: The way it's all so casual, which in effect, sets up Viggo later in the film.
Carlton: I just love the pacing way too much. Slower starts with a general build up of tension and all around wonder of what's going on was always a bit more impacting to me than those films that just explode on the screen.
George: It's that juxtaposition that makes all this.
Bill: Plus, no score until right... now.
Andrew: The music in this scene with the bodies. It's not BANG! Scary bad things!
George: Bad child actor. Good thing he kills her.
Bill: This is brutal shit.
Charlie: You can't always get Dakota Fanning.
Charlie: Maybe she was cast by George Lucas.
Bill: It should've been the kid from Jerry Maguire.
George: Haha. Directing kids must be a weird thing.
George: Relying on offscreen cues and such.
Bill: You have to trick them to get what you want, I bet.
Andrew: Yeah. Once you learn it's all done with them copying their parents, it's weird and creepy.
Bill: At least it's not that brat from The Ring. He'll star in the remake of Peeping Tom some day.
Andrew: Also - once you realise that all cartoon animals have human eyes - that's creepy.
George: THE SHAGGY DOG!
Andrew: Eurgh.
Andrew: Tim Allen too.
Charlie: I almost thought the Hobbit theme was coming in then.
George: It totally sounds like it. Same few bars.
Andrew: Nothing's happening.
Charlie: FORESHADOWING.
Bill: Viggo is a quiet actor.
Charlie: He's always so understated
Carlton: Makes him incredibly likable.
Andrew: Except when he kicks that orc helmet in The Two Towers. He broke his toe in that shot and that shout still sounds lame.
Andrew: Sorry.
Bill: I hate Taurus stationwagons.
Charlie: It's such inobtrusive camerawork
Charlie: It doesn't feel at all like the usual voyeuristic POV.
Andrew: Still nothing's happening.
Bill: "I'll bang you on the stairs later."
Bill: Great diner.
George: That's shot entirely in studio, btw.
George: The outdoor simulation is perfect.
Bill: Some of the best food in the world is served in diners.
George: I love what Cronenberg says in the commentary about the uniforms in this baseball scene.
George: Originally, the colors were reversed, with Viggo's kid and team having the blue shirts, etc.
George: OMG PSYCHOLOGY!
Bill: That's budget savings right there.
Andrew: How could the bully think he's scored a homer when the good kid is standing in te middle of the field?
Andrew: It was an obvious catch.
George: Maybe Viggo's son is notorious for sucking at sports.
George: In fact, he mentioned it himself at the breakfast table.
Andrew: The good kid didn't even have to move.
Andrew: Movie sucks.
Bill: That fool should have been running.
Charlie: Again, lack of score.
Carlton: Which I like.
Carlton: Perfect for setting this scene. Makes you feel just as uncomfortable as the son is.
Bill: Remember the guy in the porn basement in Se7en? That's who this kid looks like.
Bill: The guy running the booth.
Andrew: Good kid is way too eloquent for his age.
George: We had lots of kids like that in high school.
George: Eloquent.
George: Nerds.
Andrew: They get beat up a lot?
George: Actually, no.
Carlton: I would have ended up bloodied and bruised on the floor.
Carlton: And in a fetal position.
Carlton: Crying.
Andrew: Are we getting close to the cheerleader scene?
Carlton: Yeah, quite close.
Bill: What a burn.
Carlton: "Your words are far too elqouent and charming, you faggot!"
Bill: "I can't even beat you now. Asshole!"
Andrew: So what is the score? It sounds like quiet fanfares.
Andrew: Triumphant music, almost.
George: "We never had a chance to be teenagers..."
George: YOU SLUT!
Bill: Cheerleader scene is coming up.
George: Knickers!
Charlie: It's almost like the kind of music you'd hear in another movie.
Charlie: I love that she flinches when she pulls the belt off.
Charlie: And it hits the wall.
Andrew: Carlton, you still not a fan of Bello?
Carlton: Jean Grey using her mind to do it was hotter.
George: Well, Famke is just hotter period.
George: I love how playful and innocently this is played.
Bill: Until they go down Route 69.
Andrew: I still think a lot of these early scenes feel forced. Slightly fake.
Carlton: I also recall in the theater a 5 year old girl being there with eyes wide open during this scene...
Charlie: I like how it seems forced.
Andrew: This could all be deliberate to show the facade of polite American life.
Andrew: And stuff.
George: I think so. There's definitely a somewhat idealist view of classic Americana on display here in the beginning.
Bill: The subtext is that she is playing a role, and so is he.
Andrew: But Bello does all that and is natural.
Andrew: And hot. And naked.
Carlton: Maria Bello needs to eat a bit more food. Then I'd be more impressed, Andrew.
Bill: Guys in high school never go down.
Andrew: I'm a bit on the fence as to whether this deliberate niceness and, well, dullness, is a bit on the nose.
Charlie: It's almost mirroring Cronenberg - as if he's uncomfortable with the normal stuff, but when it starts getting heavier (at least for a mainstream Hollywood pic), he relaxes.
Bill: How romantic. They kissed naughty parts.
Andrew: Slurp.
George: It is a mirror. With the stuff later on in the film especially.
George: And I do think it's entirely deliberate because it lends even more impact to the latter stuff.
George: It's really all about contrast.
Carlton: "I love you. We'll get some awesome rape in later."
Andrew: Now, we always try to look for what is forbidden.
Andrew: And the one thing we don't see here is Vig cock.
Carlton: This city reminds me far too much of mine.
Charlie: I think this dialogue sounds a bit too "written" (the two teens).
Bill: You know that in a Cronenberg movie, when he sets up this much happiness, he's going to tear it apart big time later.
Andrew: And it is - It's 'Happy'. Hollywood happy. American Dream happy. And it feels fake.
Bill: Not all sensitive goofballs get sexy chicks like this one.
Charlie: The look the guy in the truck gives... just like Tom Sizemore in the diner in Heat.
Carlton: A lot of the teen stuff is a bit unatural, but not so much that it's distracting.
George: Love the bully's reaction to the two guys.
Andrew: I think that we wouldn't accept it anyway. Cronenberg didn't need to play up the fakeness.
Bill: That other guy looks, and acts, like Giovanni Ribisi.
Andrew: If the fakeness is deliberate. I really don't think the good teenager's lines are even remotely real.
Carlton: I swear that guy is Lance Henriksen.
Bill: Henriksen held out for more money. So they used his stunt double.
Charlie: I think it depends, because we're not coming from an American viewpoint.
George: It's certainly an approximation, but I think it's pretty close. At least in my experience.
Charlie: Kinda looks like Ming.
Charlie: This guy is real creepy.
Andrew: I keep getting told that all those American high school movies are like documentaries.
Andrew: And we English snobs laugh at them for beng too soapy and over the top.
Carlton: Henriksen requested some french fries with his cheese sandwich, but Cronenberg didn't have the resources.
George: Best utterance of the word "coffee" ever.
Andrew: Violence soon.
Bill: Strider wouldn't take that abuse.
Charlie: That bit with the dude's jaw.... that's some crazy shit.
Carlton: That jaw is fucking awesome.
George: Fantastic stuff.
Carlton: I love the work they put into making it. You can tell Cronenberg cared about every bit of that scene.
Andrew: Hmmm. Not so impressive in freeze frame.
Andrew: You can tell it's just makeup OVER his cheek.
Bill: Spoil sport.
George: YOU MEAN THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY SHOOT LANCE HENRIKSEN IN THE FACE???
Andrew: I suppose I'm not supposed to freeze frame it.
Bill: Come on, Andrew. Be a movie fan.
Bill: It's fun.
Andrew: Well there are better tricks you can do.
Carlton: When Andrew hates it, he actually likes it.
Bill: Viggo's eyes darting around tells the story.
Bill: Here's Bello.
George: This I love. The whole celebrity of his actions.
Bill: "Way to kill those foreigners, Tom."
George: Hahaha.
Andrew: Nice. Vig's reactions do play differently when you know the twist.
Andrew: He's not just tongue tied.
George: The son's so proud of his murderous father.
Bill: That truck almost said WKRP.
Andrew: He's got some internal stuff now. Nice.
George: This look at the window coming up...
Carlton: This movie is even more interesting the second time around.
Bill: Mark of a good movie.
Andrew: Instead of WTF twists like Switchblade Romance (High Tension).
Carlton: ED HARRIS!
George: It's amazing how Viggo goes from being so sweet and tender to straight up creepy with just a change of glare.
Andrew: He's both in one look now - He's the gangster looking out from underneath the nice guy, seeing if the mask has slipped.
George: Ed Harris is incredible in this film. And I love how the gangsters (the goons especially) are portrayed as caricatures of gangsters from American films.
Carlton: This time around you see the latent awkwardness and everything. His swag is slightly different. Just has an all around depth to it all.
Andrew: I like the Ed Harris eye.
Bill: He's got the evil eye.
Andrew: Though, you know, if Joey HAD ripped his face off with barb wire, the eye wouldn't be there any more.
Andrew: Pop!
George: Hahahaha. I just love how the gangster cronies speak.
Bill: It could be a fake eye?
George: Maybe it's a new one, and he couldn't afford a better one.
Andrew: Why'd he get a fake 'white' eye?
Bill: It's got a milky iris.
George: TO INTIMIDATE, ANDREW!
Andrew: Oh. Right.
Carlton: I always hear tidbits of LOTR in Shore's music now.
George: I hear it in his pre-LOTR stuff too.
Charlie: Some of The Silence of the Lambs stuff has it.
Andrew: Now I don't know about you, but I'm interpreting all of Vig's acting as Joey just hiding behind Tom now.
Charlie: Well yeah, he's been hiding since Philly.
Andrew: But Cronenberg takes pains NOT to spell out which is the real him.
Andrew: Cronenberg always just shows you a situation and asks you to decide how you feel about it.
Bill: Is Superman really Clark Kent, or vice versa?
Charlie: He's really Superman.
Carlton: Vig pulls it off perfectly. Just little movements and expressions. Like how he's not that surprised about all this when the Sheriff lays down all the info.
Charlie: The way he gets his name wrong... 'John' 'Joey'.
George: The concept of time isn't well established I think. And it doesn't need to be. It's up to the audience to figure out. But the fact is that he's been Tom for 15-20 years, or at least however old the son is. After so much time, at what point do you fully begin to believe your own lie. Would you? I think that's fascinating to consider.
Andrew: Like Crash getting into so much trouble for it's 'morality', when the film is all about morality - it's asking you how YOU feel about what you are seeing.
Andrew: Cronenberg never judges.
Andrew: But I'm seeing it totally as Tom just being a mask.
Bill: Does this movie fit into his "flesh" theme?
Andrew: Depends.
Andrew: Flesh is always a metaphor for Cronenberg.
George: It fits into his "something waiting to burst out of you" theme.
Andrew: What George said.
George: Bello is very good here.
Carlton: I need to see more Cronenberg films.
Andrew: Yes. You. Do.
Bill: In a way, Joey's flesh made him bad, and he's been trying to shed that skin all along.
Andrew: That might be a bit TOO obvious, Bill.
Carlton: Well, they said in the "making of" that this is the same sort of struggle and transformation that's seen in all his films, just internal.
Andrew: Yeah. Transformation. Identity. That juicy stuff.
Andrew: By the way, has anyone seen M. Butterfly?
Bill: Yeah.
Andrew: Woah. Completist. Any good?
Bill: It's interesting, but I don't remember much about it. The movie that is. I saw the stage play as well.
Andrew: Vig's performance is awesome now that I know the twist.
Bill: Don't tell your wife to grab a shotgun, then burst into the house like that.
Bill: Who eats Honey Bunches of Oats?
George: I heart HBoO.
Andrew: Bad kid actors eat it.
George: But he's not bad, though.
Bill: That's a cute kid.
Carlton: Kids with supressed emotions eat Honey Bunches of Oats. It makes them call people "cocsucker motherfucker" louder.
George: It's true.
Bill: Only kid actors who eat Golden Grahams get my approval.
George: Viggo wears a cross. I think that's interesting.
Carlton: Yeah I noticed that in the cheerleader scene, surprisingly.
Carlton: My attention was otherwise distracted for a bit.
Andrew: I'm always suspicious of those sorts of signifiers. Seem too obvious.
Bill: He still wears his thug ornaments.
Andrew: 'He wears the cross as a sign of normality! An empty sign!'
Andrew: 'Religion is empty.'
Andrew: And so on.
Andrew: Maybe I'm gay for C, but I grant him more subtlety than that.
Bill: Nah, it's the inner goomba trying to break out.
George: Do you think a character like that would eventually begin to believe his own facade, though? Like, even religion?
Andrew: Yeah. Actually.
Bill: We all believe the facade we choose.
Carlton: I don't know. Joey seems far to strong a personality to ever forget.
Andrew: But Vig's performance seems deliberately full of shifty looks now.
Carlton: It might be dormant, sort of, but not forgotten.
Bill: The instant he shot those guys, he remembered, so he didn't push the other guy that far down.
George: I'm extrapolating, of course. But I think it's an interesting question that Cronenberg poses.
Andrew: I mean, the American Dream (WARNING: THEME!) is all about becoming. Leaving behind.
George: True.
Carlton: I don't think you could ever push something that far down...
Andrew: Maybe he's "JoeyTom" at the end.
Andrew: The real Fly sequel.
George: Brundlefly... JoeyTom... CAGE MATCH!
George: I like that Maria Bello's character is actually the more dominant force in the marriage throughout.
Bill: That's marriage, George.
Carlton: The kid's girlfriend looks like a meth addict from the 80s.
Carlton: At least in this scene.
Andrew: Teenager fight.
Bill: But she's the awkward beauty as well.
Carlton: YEAH, SKANK.
George: That's true, Bill. But does that dynamic change after the final scene?
George: Does it change her?
Bill: I think she has the final decision in the film.
Bill: So she's still dominant, in a way.
Andrew: That final decision is never made though.
Andrew: Film stops just before it.
George: That's true. He does seek her approval, in a way. Or acceptance rather.
Andrew: She does have the decision.
Bill: The end is a reset of their family structure.
Andrew: but C doesn;t give that to us, because that would give the audience closure - a lcear answer.
Andrew: Not having the answer is the point. C is asking us.
Andrew: Always does.
George: Yup.
Carlton: "Smart mouth" sounds so awkward coming out of Vig's mouth.
George: Probably because Joey would've said "cocksucker".
Andrew: What I thought was funny - going back to the kid fight - someone argued that the kid had Joey's fighting skills in his DNA and it got 'woken' up.
Bill: Bullshit.
Andrew: like they were mutants. like it was sci-fi.
George: Ebert brought something like that up.
George: Nature vs. Nurture. Darwinism. Stuff like that.
Bill: He just took strength from his father's violence.
Bill: That's not the "history of violence".
Andrew: Yeah. He didn't suddenly learn kung fu like Neo.
Andrew: He just punched and kicked.
Carlton: Another great scene incoming...
Bill: He just snapped, like Ralphie in A Christmas Story.
Andrew: It was funny because people had to put some supernatural, nerdy explanation on it - rather than that familial, character explanation like Bill put it.
George: He's Joey now, fully I think. No facade, nothing
George: The son's like "Who the fuck are you?"
George: Also, The fly buzzing around the window is a nice touch. HOMAGE?!
Bill: He's got MPD.
Andrew: Okay. The nose is good.
Charlie: If you zoom in there's a spider with Viggo's head on it.
Bill: And Ed Harris' wrinkled face is the trigger.
Carlton: God, that nose thing is fucking brutal. I love it.
Andrew: I really like how the film gets through bad guys.
Andrew: Introduced. Killed. Moves on.
Andrew: It keeps the focus on JoeyTom's character.
Andrew: Rather than a good guy/bad guy dynamic.
Andrew: Because...woah...that dynamic is all internal!
Andrew: Woah.
Charlie: It's so weird how his face just changes.
George: Completely. It's an amazing and thankless performance.
Bill: Chunk of heart. On Tom's shirt.
Carlton: The look he gives his son...just perfect.
Carlton: Its like Tom's disgusted and Joey is proud.
Bill: Harris' eye just dimmed. HE'S A CYBORG!
George: I think the Brits got some blood gushing we didn't.
Andrew: There's a shot of the guy lying on the ground with his nose all shoved in. Still alive of course. About 2 seconds. Tell me you had that.
George: We had it... but I think they digitally removed some spurting blood.
George: According to our DVD, the US cut is slightly cleaned up from the international cut.
George: But it's slight.
Bill: That's so ridiculous.
Carlton: Yeah, he's right.
George: We're the heinous ones. GIVE US THE BLOOD!
Bill: When did the "video nasties" laws loosen up in the UK?
Charlie: Late 90s.
Bill: Now it's reversed.
Bill: We get tamer stuff.
Andrew: Starship Troopers was a 15.
Charlie: 1997 was The Exorcist release, 99 was Chainsaw.
Andrew: We always laugh when you lot talk about 'hard R's'.
George: We always laugh when you say "you lot".
Charlie: Yeah, we get full on porn. With the kid from Gruey.
Andrew: Bad Boys 2 was a 15. I think because the censors realised it was a fantasy.
Andrew: Yet Chronicles of Riddick and Serenity were 15's too.
Andrew: Interesting comparison - Is sanitised violence actually worse than C's version of showing the pain and results of violence?
Carlton: I always thought the unseen or the aftermath always made the wild imagination think of the worst fucking things.
Andrew: We are teaching our kids that violence has no consequences. Because if you don't show the body or the blood, you get a PG-13.
Bill: I just want an uncut version of Malena. That's all.
Andrew: 'multiple personnality schizoid'
Andrew: Cheesy line.
Carlton: Her reaction to the news is great.
George: Bello really shines here.
Bill: Great vomit scene.
Carlton: "It was...available."
Bill: He's talking like a mobster.
George: Yeah.
George: It's funny that his accent changes ever so slightly as the movie progresses.
Bill: His son's attitude is not appropriate.
Charlie: 'that piece of the action' line is greatness.
Bill: It's almost time for stairsex.
Carlton: StairRAPE.
George: Yay!
Bill: Stairchokeandpoke.
Andrew: Getting interesting. Because she lies to the policeman.
Andrew: Who is she now?
George: Exactly.
Bill: She's a mob wife.
Bill: She even cries like a mob wife.
Andrew: She's the emotional heart of the film.
Carlton: In this scene as well, the five year old girl's eyes were open, and the mother flipped out, "CLOSE YOUR EYES! CLOSE THEM!"
Carlton: That theater experience was both horrible and great.
Charlie: Five year old?
Carlton: In the theater when I saw this for the first time.
Carlton: Five or six year old girl with her mother and older brother I think.
George: She BRINGS Viggo in. It's so important to not show that it's rape. That distinction has to be made. It's consensual.
George: I'm surprised so many people don't get that.
George: Actually, wait. I'm not.
Bill: That's no rape.
George: It's just very angry and naughty.
Andrew: And this is why we don't see Bello's decision at the end - as that would give us an 'answer'.
Bill: He's thinking about when they were teenagers, when they started out humping on a stepladder.
George: The music Shore plays over this scene is interesting, too.
George: LANDING STRIP!
Carlton: Wait a second...I remember seeing more tits in the theater.
Bill: On the screen?
Carlton: They looked more covered up here, or maybe I just looked up at the wrong time.
Andrew: The music is all tone - no action beats. right?
Charlie: You shouldn't be watching five year olds like that.
Charlie: Yeah, no action beats at all.
Carlton: It's a curse, Charlie. It sucked when she wouldn't get in my ice cream truck, though.
George: Pretty much, Andrew. Except from when JoeyTom is running back to the house and Edie has the shotgun.
Carlton: A lot of this music has that heroic sound to it too...
Andrew: And it's not 'feel happy' or 'feel sad' music. It's mostly quite understated suspense music. 'What is happening here?' music.
Bill: It's a very comtemplative track.
George: This movie breezes by. We're already almost done.
Bill: The movie does move fast.
Carlton: It's good pacing.
Andrew: Once you know what's going on.
George: Well cut.
Carlton: Feels just right.
Andrew: It moved pretty slow the first time I saw it.
Carlton: Yeah that is true too.
Andrew: I get wrong footed by the fakeness of the beginning scenes.
Bill: I applaud directors who can tell a story in around 90 minutes. No offense to PJ.
George: I just remember people laughing at the sex scenes when I first saw it.
Andrew: Well they weren't being told what to think.
Andrew: No 70's disco on the soundtrack in the sex scenes.
George: Haha.
Carlton: This movie makes me hungry.
Carlton: Particularly after the stairsex, I was really hungry.
Bill: Nothing like a sandwich after some stairsex.
George: Same bar as in The Fly.
Bill: I didn't realize that.
Bill: Yuengling's is good beer.
George: C mentions it on the c track.
Bill: I need to listen to the commentary still.
Carlton: Yeah me too.
Andrew: I'm really not a fan of the kids.
Andrew: The boy has his part - to start copying the violence.
Andrew: And the girl is blindly accepting at the end.
Andrew: She's the one who hands him the dish, right?
Carlton: The boy is alright.
George: The boy is very much like kids I knew back in school. He plays the type well.
Andrew: But the meat is the husband and wife.
George: Oh definitely.
George: Thankfully, the little girl doesn't kill the last scene. I think her cuteness adds to its emotion, in fact. Would've sucked if she were ugly.
Andrew: The kids seem a bit too schematic. They are there to demonstrate points about the cycles of violence.
Bill: I want Viggo to pull out that elfen dagger in this scene.
Carlton: "For Frodo you cocksuckers!"
Carlton: Love the accent change.
Bill: Joey was doing Liv Tyler.
Bill: On those stairs.
George: HURT! I love his accent.
Carlton: William Hurt needs more work. And not of The Village variety.
Bill: "Paison, you wan' a plate o' ziti?
George: Broheim.
Andrew: The pace is like Fargo actually. Observational camera. Non-intrusive. Almost plain. Seems slow, but everything is there and full of detail.
Andrew: Molti loves the 'broheim' bit.
George: Not surprised.
George: I love how he asks him about marriage... coming up... reminds me of Devin.
Andrew: William Hurt playing Guitar Hero.
George: Hahahaha.
Bill: Eww.
George: LOL - The way Hurt asks Viggo. His inflection. It's so fucking funny.
Charlie: Has Cronenberg ever shot wide?
Andrew: Has he ever had the money to shoot wide?
George: I'm not sure, Charlie. I don't think so. Maybe in Naked Lunch?
Charlie: Carpenter always managed okay.
Charlie: Halloween, The Fog... both low-budget flicks shot scope.
Andrew: Naked Lunch was shot mostly on closed sets. Not enough space for wide.
Carlton: I need to see Naked Lunch...
George: Along with Videodrome, it's one of his more "difficult" films, but well worth it, Carl.
Bill: Start with Rabid and work your way up.
Andrew: I used to watch horror films with a couple of friends when I was a teenager (I was the only one who could rent '18's).
Andrew: But then we watched Naked Lunch and one of them just freaked out at the gay stuff.
Charlie: Oh god.
Andrew: Couldn't handle it. Turned away from the screen, strarted trying to distract us by playing the guitar.
Carlton: Hahaha, the guitar?
Carlton: "Oh god, buttsex! You guys wanna hear a song I wrote?"
Andrew: Yeah. Guitar was closest. It was really funny. Last time we did the horror thing.
George: "A shoe in!"
Bill: I don't like Hurt here.
Andrew: "How do you fuck that up?"
Andrew: I like that line.
George: Hurt's way over the top... but I think it fits with making the gangsters into caricatures, which I fully believe was intentional on C's part.
George: Boot to face.
Carlton: Boot to NECK.
Bill: Stepping on the neck - the most brutal kill of the film.
Andrew: There's also a problem of the gangsters just standing around while Joey does his stuff.
Andrew: Delicate balance of making it realistic and in real time I guess.
George: It's funny!
George: It plays on the whole incompetent lackey thing.
Andrew: I think it comes off just a fraction too slow.
Andrew: But I could be spoiled by years of hyper-action filmmaking.
George: BAM!
George: "Jesus, Richie."
Bill: He's down.
Andrew: Now, why does he wash in the lake, when the house is empty and full of bathrooms? Something symbolic going on about baptisms and new beginnings and stuff.
Andrew: Seems too obvious to me.
Carlton: It certainly is a little bit more dramatic.
Charlie: I thought it was a parody of those sorts of scenes
George: Baptismal shit... I agree, Andrew. But it's trying to be poetic.
Andrew: Nice shot, though.
Carlton: Gives us time to catch up after the violence, gives you time to think a bit.
George: Plus, The Vig without a shirt. A+
Carlton: You fag.
Charlie: Yeah, if there was ever any man i wanted to be semi-raped on the stairs by...
Andrew: Cronenberg is definitely playing with the broader elements of the pulpy crime genre. Playing off them. Against them.
Andrew: Sometimes I think he falls into them, though.
George: This ending has really become one of my all-time favorites.
George: Says so much without saying anything at all.
Carlton: Again, people were so pissed in the theater because of this ending.
Carlton: Lot of grumbles and "OH COME ON!"
George: Yup, same here.
Andrew: They wanted the little girl to explode.
George: Hahahaha.
Andrew: Hurt planted a bomb in her, just in case.
Carlton: And Sauron to come out and battle Viggo.
George: And eagles!
Carlton: And slow-mo bed jumping!
Andrew: People weren't told what to think. So they thought nothing was happening.
Bill: The average theater viewer probably wanted a big sunny ending, with a Mack Davis song swelling and a dog running in from the side.
Charlie: The body language of that little girl is good.
George: Yeah.
Andrew: They probably could have accepted a bloody negative ending.
Andrew: But not this quiet stuff.
George: Exactly... it has to be one extreme or the other.
And the film comes to a close. Our bantar, however, does not...
Carlton: And it's done. On a wonderful image.
George: Great looks from the adults.
Bill: He gets approval from all members of the family.
Andrew: Does he?
George: Does he? I'm not so sure about the wife... or the son for that matter, really.
Charlie: I thought he just got meatloaf.
Carlton: Same here...
Carlton: Vig loves meatloaf.
Bill: I think she lets the kids speak for her.
Carlton: Music over the credits is nice.
George: I think that wraps it up too well. I love the idea that it really doesn't settle shit.
Bill: You don't share dinner with a stranger.
George: At least between him and his wife... though like I said, I'm honestly not even sure about the son.
Bill: You just want more stairsex.
George: Are the kids doing it more as a vestigial act? I don't think it's heartfelt acceptance.
Carlton: What other films have done endings like that? Just kind of cutoff, let you decide kind of bit.
Andrew: The little girl just accepts it as normal.
Charlie: More Hobbit music!
Carlton: "Gandalf!"
Andrew: The end of The Deer Hunter, Carlton.
Andrew: They gather 'round the table for dinner and say a prayer or sing the anthem or something.
Andrew: But is that ritual empty? Are they just going through the motions?
Bill: I'm sure the intention was to leave it up in the air, but I think the family unit is safe.
Bill: Maybe a little shaken up, but still intact.
George: I'm really not so sure about that, but that's what I love... I love that it can be interpreted in different ways.
Carlton: I'm gonna need more fleshy Cronenberg in my diet.
Andrew: Oh, they're definitely fucking right now.
Andrew: "Kids! Get to bed!"
Bill: "Gee, mom and dad are sure walking on the stairs a bunch..."
George: "Mom, why is the staircase sticky?"
Carlton: "That's love on the stairs sweetie. Just love."
Andrew: Cut to two years later...
Andrew: "JoeyTom, the spark's gone out again."
Andrew: "Hold on. I'll get the gun."
Andrew: "Oh baby!"
Bill: I don't think you can logically 69 your partner with kids in the house either. What if someone needs a drink of water?
George: It's a wonderful film. It along with Munich are still tops of '05 for me.
Carlton: 05 was a good year for films.
Bill: I agree.
Bill: With George.
Charlie: I can't even remember what my top of 05 was.
Andrew: Still need to see Munich again.
Charlie: Probably Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.
George: Yeah, KKBB was up there for me too.
Carlton: Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was up there for me...Munich, AHOV...
Bill: Was Capote '05?
George: Yeah it was.
Bill: I haven't seen gay Kilmer/Downey yet.
George: Do we want to do a KKBB commentary?
Andrew: No way. You couldn't keep up.
Charlie: Superman!
George: FINE, I'll get the DVD.
Andrew: Stop Charlie before he mentions films starting with 'Star'.
Charlie: Starcrash?
Session End: Wed May 31 17:45:07 2006
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Awesome screencaps, George.
Yes, very good George. I'd like to congratulate us all on a job well done. Hurrah!
Thank you, guys!
Also, we rock. Hopefully others will agree.
God, I was awesome. Like Spider-Man making a cameo in a New Warriors issue.
Excelsior, bitches.
ps. y'all did real good.
Reading back, it seems like I spent the entire commentary disagreeing with Bill, which I feel a bit foolish about.
The family unit does seem safe at the end, like Bill wrote - the journey and all the grue was to save the family. the question Cronenberg leaves us is what now? What is the family now?
I kind of just said, "I need to watch more Cronenberg" over and over.
Hopefully we can watch a dumb flick next time so I don't have to pay attention and stuff.
Disagreement is a good thing sometimes, Andrew. The ending is ambiguous, which is necessarily what Cronenberg intended. I just choose to think that Viggo's character will try to return to his humble persona as much as he can, always wary of another enemy coming down the street. I hate to think that he did so much killing without gaining some part of his normal life back. All of the family members, save the little girl, are damaged, but intact. They may not live in ignorant bliss anymore, but they will survive.